The State of WebcomicDUMB
Ok, so i wasn’t going to post anymore on this tonight, but I wanted to put out some of my thoughts on this and give a run down on the response to the news about Platinum buying Drunk Duck and what it could mean to for creators. I won’t write out a long thing right here on the main page, if thest things interest you, hit the MORE link….. here we go….
So, I woke up this morning, first e-mail in my inbox was from Platinum letting me know the article in the NY TIMES ran and they showed the Hero By Night promo work and mentioned my name. I’ve known about Platinum’s plans almost right after I won the Comic Book Challenge, and I had no idea going in that they had plans to aim at the webcomic market, but when I heard the plans for the New Media office of Platinum, I got excited. At first when they told me “we bought drunk duck” — I thought– “HUH!? DRUNK DUCK!???” because last I had heard of them they shut down I thought– but I was given the update on what happened to them, etc and that they were alive and kicking. I knew and told one of the New Media guys that as soon as it was released you’d have people dissing it as “not news” — “nothing new” or “who cares”… because, well, Webcomicdom is pretty lame like that. The plan they laid out to me for Drunk Duck seemed SOLID, and i was excited, I still am excited about– as I understood it, it’s a phasing in plan, version “2.0″ goes online this week.
Now, in the time it took me to track down a New York Times in Fayette-Nam (Fay West Area) — I got back to a barrage of negative like e-mails about the news, which was kinda a downer. I mean, my art and name was just in the NY TImes, I guess it’s no big deal to other people, but i was excited for me. I was excited for the article.
Then came sarcastic biting posts from Eisner Award Winning Scott Kurtz at PVP- , who had already voiced caution about the Comic Book Challenge contest last July. It’s obvious he has a belief that PLATINUM = BAD FOR CREATORS. (and I’ll tell you why it’s not bad in a few moments) —
Then came Scott’s aviator styling sidekick and tag team partner, Kris Straub with not only a webcomic about the NY Times article and how NOT NEWS it is, and a Slipcast video podcast all about how Platinum = BAD FOR CREATORS. Or that he’s worried or looking out for creators who might get taken advantage of when they’re excited. I take special offense to Kris’s podcast because it’s aimed at me. He quoted from my “excited” blog entry about the news. Hey, listen guy… I AM EXCITED. While you guys have your opinions, I have mine, and on my side I think it IS exciting for creators, drunk duck and WEBCOMICS. (I’ll tell you why in a minute too) — but Kris also brought up the “Comic Book Challenge” contest again. Misrepresented the facts in that case saying that the winner pretty much won the right to have his rights taken away from him. Again, I won the thing– they BOUGHT THE RIGHTS from me, and now I’m getting paid to draw the comic book. That’s what I won. Also Kris went on at length about how when something is “optioned” it means you’re setting up a deal for “acquiring rights” and it sounded to me like he was saying that I got excited because I was recognized and sold my rights in the excitment? I mean, he didn’t say DJ Coffman, but he mentioned it in the same context as the Platinum contest, as well as the winner– me. So, anyway, Kris, if you want the facts, come get them from me, I’ll be happy to tell you I actually WON something and I’m making money. Hooray for me.
Listen….. I get the idea that these guys might be worried about creator’s rights, even MY creator rights. But to spin this around into something bad, and not see ANY GOOD from the news for other creators or webcomics as a whole, it’s just dumb and narrow minded on their part. Kris, Scott, anyone else, take a few days and think about it. You have a question? Ask someone directly. Go ahead and interview Platinum if you can, ask me even. Ask other creators who are currently working with them. I mean, all I hear is HEARSAY and no facts about anything negative. Why speculate? It’s bad for everyone. Especially the speculators.
Here’s THE NEWS. THIS IS WHAT’S NEW. THIS IS WHAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. LISTEN CLOSELY.
A company, with millions of dollars and already multiple media deals in the works, not to mention COMIC BOOKS AND GRAPHIC NOVELS THAT ARE COMING OUT, has come to the web and BOUGHT a webcomic hub site. Sure, the owner of that site made money. That’s great– but instead of selling it off and going on vacation, Platinum HIRED HIM as their IT guy. Instead of just foldiing up the doors, they have a plan to offer the best, or the ones who accept chances like I have right now. Contracts like mine, maybe not the same, but DAMN GOOD ONES. It’s NEW and DIFFERENT because, well Platinum has the connections that NO OTHER webcomic company, group, hub, collective have. When was the last time you read an article about someone pumping a million dollars into the NEW MEDIA group like ClickWheel or ModernTales or ANYTHING — you didnt. But Platinum has. — Not only that, but right there shows you that SERIOUS BUSINESSMEN take WEBCOMICS serious enough to invest in it’s future. Don’t act like this isn’t BIG NEWS. It is. And it’s got you talking, for better or for worse.
So, how does this help CREATORS. How does it Help WEBCOMICS– I can only give you MY perspective.
Why is Hero By Night GOOD for me??? It was a CONCEPT i had. I pitched it. THEY BOUGHT IT. I’m under contract to draw it for a nice page rate, future royalties, bonuses and more. It’s a win win for me. Would I like to see it as a movie or tv show, action figures??? HELL YEAH… but that’s all speculative at this point and my focus is on making a GOOD, QUALITY COMIC BOOK TO READ. I’ll let them do the rest, and at any point of success beyond my actual WORK on the project, I’ll make money, guaranteed.
And that’s just not ME. That can probably go to ANYONE who has a quality story to tell. Try it. Or don’t
How is this good for WEBCOMICS??? Webcomics were just mentioned in the NY TIMES. A company is investing TONS of money in an online webcomic hub with plans to reach out and expand unknown creators works to other medias. How is that NOT NEWS? How is that BAD NEWS?
Hey, look. I see your point, the naysayers. If I were running with just YIRMUMAH the comic here, that wouldn’t fly. It likely wouldn’t be something they could take to Movies or TV (maybe animated?) — but I consider the YIRMUMAH stuff “my baby” — no, I didn’t sell Platinum “my baby” — Where I come from is this… I’m a cartoonist. I consider myself a freelancer and I have THOUSANDS OF IDEAS in my head, sketchbooks, computer files, webcomics I never drew. If you consider yourself just a cartoonist, why not take an idea you have which you wouldn’t have done otherwise or might not have been able to put out yourself, put together a pitch and go for it with that one thing. That ONE idea out of the thousands….. Shit, maybe other creators don’t have thousands of ideas, that would be sad, but just about EVERY creator I know has TONS of them stashed away that they will likely never get to do and will remain in the obscurity drawer.
But say for instance this… worse case scenario… your book gets picked up. They BUY the rights, pay you to draw the series… they test it in the market, the web– the sales are mediocre (like most comic books these days actually) and no one CARES about your book. The journey ends there for you EITHER WAY. On your own, you would have been likely broke and DONE. But with the deal like I have– say you only made $50,000 bucks total on your project and thats JUST in the print side of things. — you pitched an idea you wouldnt have done otherwise, and you made 50k doing it and gave it your best shot but the market didn’t bear it– the fans didnt beat down the door. You move on to the NEXT PROJECT. Maybe even another publisher– or you quit. 50k for likely 4 or 5 months REAL work. Whatever. That’s pretty solid money for a freelancing cartoonist or creator, eh?
or…. speculation. Middle Case Scenario — Say it died in the book market… but a few years later, some OTHER company likes the idea and sees it in one of Platinum’s catalogs or regular pitch meetings (or hobknobby stuff that I imagine and know goes on out there in California)– then BAM, suddenly something you thought wouldnt make you another dime on, you’re getting royalties or bonuses on films, animation, whatever another media might do with it. And anywhere it goes… it has YOUR NAME ON IT. You created it. Something, depending on it’s success, which CAN help you land more or BETTER deals.
Best case scenario… it’s ALL a success. And you find yourself being paid to draw a regular series, graphic novels or whatever, royalties, bonuses, whatever. Heck, I don’t know the writer from Men in Black, but if I would have been him, I’d of likely milked that action with OTHER projects that said “From the Creator of Men in Black comes…” —- shit, that guy could STILL be a NEW Stan Lee of comic books if he wanted to be, in my opinion. Well, maybe not to you bitter and jaded minded folks out there– but i know if my kids heard that and had a book handed to them, they’d LOVE IT.
Some of you should ask speculative questions of yourself… what would you do if a company wanted you to draw for them? Let’s day Marvel or DC… would you suddenly be demanding you own this or that or came up with that and this? Well, you wouldn’t be working there long.
All this writing, and nothing of what I said will make anyone change their mind. I think we’ll ALL have to wait and see, right? I mean, there are people who still believe there won’t be a Hero By Night book, or even the Cowboys and Aliens book…. but I know for a fact they ARE coming… but still, no matter, you wont believe it. And even when it comes out, it’ll likely be some other negative crap or spin you’ll put on it.– Take a few days and THINK about all the angles. Not just where you’re sitting. And for the love of god, think about them before you twist words around or speculate or make shit up, especially about MY dealings. I hate that shit. Let’s just wait and see….
I can promise you what I’m doing is kickass, I’m HAPPY doing it, and well, that’s all I can promise right now.
Good night, and good luck.
September 26th, 2006 at 12:28 am
DJ,
I don’t care what anyone else says about you. Right now, you ARE the most level-headed guy that is involved with online comics.
The thing that gets me, the point that so many people seem to be missing, is that Platinum, although maybe not a MAJOR player in comics but still a somewhat significant one, is putting their comic BOOKS online BEFORE they go to print. It’s like a try before you buy thing, or at least an alternative to those who are tired off constantly filling up long boxes in their basement (I’m currently at 15). That to me is a big deal. DC and Marvel are not doing it. Sure, they’ve dabbled in online comics, but not really to this extent. I think the day is coming when comic readers will have a choice, just like music fans currently do: buy the comic (CD) at the store or download a digital version from the Internet (iTunes, Napster, etc.)
And when that day finally arrives, and there no longer is a distinction between web and print, it’s ALL just COMICS, that my friend will be a glorious day.
September 26th, 2006 at 12:39 am
Shouldn’t it be “all just comics” in the first place? This faux elitism some webcomic people like to surround themselves with is just plain sad.
September 26th, 2006 at 12:46 am
The sad thing is that as little as I pay attention to the drama that gets kicked up in web-comics - because all you cartoonists are likely bat-shit insane to begin with
- I still have caught enough of it to have an opinion.
As much as I like PVP and Straub’s work, I find that when another web-cartoonist goes out and takes a chance on something without consulting the holy Kurtz (or even worse, going against his advice, asked for or not), there’s no possible way it could work. Scott rants about it as if he has some sort of divine right to tell other web cartoonists what to do, and Straub will quickly jump on board. I also detect a streak of jealousy on Straub’s part when he blogs about other cartoonists’ success because he, talented as he is, hasn’t experienced the same level of success.
The last incident (that I can remember) was over Buckley doing his CtrlAltDel Premium that gives you access to animations with his characters in them. I don’t know if he’s becoming filthy rich, but he’s another one of you guys who make a living at doing what he loves (and he’s probably batshit insane as well), and from appearances, he does it how he (and not Kurtz) wants.
The only guys that they don’t feel inclined to act this way towards are the Penny-Arcade guys, but then they are the 800-lb gorilla in the room, and Kurtz probably like milking his relationship with them ala, “Look at me! I know Gabe and Tycho! Look at me! I know Frank Cho!”
TlalocW
September 26th, 2006 at 12:57 am
I don’t think it’s any kind of jealousy– if so, that would be sad as shit. Nothing comes over night, and I’ve been working at comics almost my WHOLE life.
One of the things I wanted to write about how the article was more about Platinum taking their COMIC BOOKS— COMIC BOOKS— COMIC BOOKS — to the web. Sure it’s good for webcomics because of the drunk duck deal, etc… but really, it is a different approach they are doing with their comic books, mixing medias with having exclusive webcomics going along with books, etc.
I think the whole commentary is kinda sad, and it does smack of something. You’d think Platinum kicked their puppies or something.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:07 am
Adam,
For the record, I’m saying it should be all just comics, that’s how I view it. Trust me, I feel no sense of elitism. Quite the contrary. But that’s the point of what Platinum meant by “breaking down boundaries”. Too many people still see it as webcomics and print comics or comic books. Too many people, both fan and creator, only like one and don’t want anything to do with the other. A lot of comic book fans think webcomics are strictly amateur hour. And a lot of webcomic fans think comic books are just spandex-clad superhero trite and that’s it. Plantinum wants everyone to just think of them all as comics and just find what you like. At least, that’s what I got out of that article.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:22 am
The weird thing is that all web cartoonists are always on about increasing the legitimacy of web comics - as entertainment, as business models, etc. Kurtz was on a tear a year or two ago (and rightly so) when Wiley of Non-Sequitir dissed web comics as a viable way to support yourself.
I’m no web cartoonist nor a business guy, but I would think this would be an exciting thing. Here’s a company that’s saying, “Yes, we agree with you. We wish to invest in web comics. We are dumping X dollars into this and are excited about it,” but it doesn’t fit into Kurtz’s Wiley-like tunnel vision on how to succeed via web comics. And for some reason it matters that they’re just now doing this, making them Johnny-Come-Lately’s. Kurtz’s Catch-22 is, “We want to legitimize web comics, but these companies didn’t see our genius early on and get on board from the beginning, thus we diss them.”
I guess it’s unfortunate for all web cartoonists like you that you’ll never be legitimate until you and companies like Platinum get the blessings of Kurtz and his hangers-on.
TlalocW
September 26th, 2006 at 1:34 am
I don’t need Kurtz or anyone else’s blessings to consider myself legitimate. I don’t care if my views and opions differ from some people, there will always be like minded people out there.
And I totally agree with you TlalocW. Platinum seems to be one of the few comic book companies that is ready, willing and able to really invest in comics online. I’m really not sure what Kurtz’s beef is on this one. I suppose he has creators’s best interests at heart, but I think he needs to give Platinum the benefit of the doubt and just see where this goes. For some creators, it may end up being a really good thing. Only time will tell.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:08 am
50k for five months of work…what world are you living in Coffman?
September 26th, 2006 at 2:23 am
“I also detect a streak of jealousy on Straub’s part when he blogs about other cartoonists’ success because he, talented as he is, hasn’t experienced the same level of success.”
Please, let’s not try to defuse my position with that one. I know why I’m not experiencing the same level of success: I’m doing very obtuse niche sci-fi commentary about art criticism! I’d have to be insane to think that’d go over as big as something broader.
To be honest, I’m really happy that Platinum seems to have momentum behind DJ and Hero By Night. Everything I’d heard in the past involved them getting involved with something, then sitting on it. All I was trying to say in my podcast was that it’s easy to get stars in your eyes when someone comes around saying “I recognize your work, and it is good.”
Platinum is not the devil. DJ Coffman is not the devil. But there is more to success in comics than being discovered and suddenly being catapulted to stardom. If you got there, God bless you, but no one should start thinking that that’s a working model to be followed.
I’ve just been in a number of positions where I had to pass on something because I felt I was going to be taken advantage of. And I’d turn around and see others wind up embittered because they thought they were climbing onto a gravy train that immediately dried up.
This isn’t a question of artistic integrity either — the proletariat versus the bourgeoisie or anything. For the right price, I’d sell off everything I’m doing, and you’d be a fool not to. I just don’t see why if I make $1,000 on my work, someone else has to be making $10,000 off it first. Why am I not allowed to question that? That’s why syndicates have ruled the newspaper world. “Yeah, we’ll get you into newspapers — but we’ll give you 5% of what your work actually earns.”
The trouble with the webcomics “model” in general is that once something because successful enough to be termed “successful,” it leaves the world of webcomics and becomes something else. PVP is published by Image, Penny Arcade isn’t even a comic anymore but industry commentary. For most everyone else, that just leaves stuff like Keenspot and ComicGenesis and DrunkDuck, who trade on your free content for pageviews.
Is that wrong? No, it isn’t, if you see that that’s what it is, and it’s satisfactory to you. I said as much in the podcast. It was the case when I was at Keenspot, and it is the case now that I’m with Blank Label. These things are all tools, not world-changing ideologies. I think DJ’s real successes will be done outside of Platinum’s framework, and if he can employ Platinum to get there, all the power in the world to him. I’ll shake his hand.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:44 am
What also sucks is when you get involved in something that gets you all excited and a little starry-eyed, and then it goes absolutely nowhere and just fizzles out. That’s what happened to me with Creature Features Comics a few years back. Fortunately, I nothing really at stake with that, but it was a big dissappointment when it all fell apart.
And yes, Kris, it is a valid concern about the whole creators only making 10% thing. I’d question it. Seems a little low. But then we don’t have all the details and this thing is still in the early stages, so who knows.
As far as the whole artistic integrity vs. selling out thing, with me it’s more a case of me being a total control freak. I have two projects that I would never give up the rights to no matter how much money I was offered, my current comic Grimstone being one of them. They are my babies, my life’s work. But I do have A LOT of other ideas that I would be perfectly willing to sell for all their worth. Some I would even just sell and let someone else make them, just collect royalties.
I think the moral of this whole story, as it is with most things in life, is to know exactly what you’re getting yourself into, what you have to lose/gain, and always, ALWAYS read the fine print.
September 26th, 2006 at 5:51 am
It’s pretty naive of you to think every budding creator that shows as much potential as you will get the same deal DJ.
September 26th, 2006 at 8:20 am
I could go on and on about my distaste for Kurtz… But I’m just one of many who don’t like his attitude. The man has something to say, usually, about most things going on in comics, webcomics and the Netizens around him. What he does come up with, comes with some credence, because he was one of the first webcomic producers to “Make it”. It’s still true.
But he isn’t the only one to make it, and YOU are someone who’s travelled the road of success in Webcomics as well. The simple fact is that jealousy and arrogance are a big part of the online scene. Kurtz is the victim of it in many many forms. He is “typed” in everything he says, and people give him grief when he doesn’t deserve it. He’s also always been an asswhole (sp intended) and it’s gotten worse since he’s been proved “right”. I think this is why he’s replying this way, knee jerk reaction.
You know what the FUNNY thing is???
You’re getting more reasonable as you succeed.
September 26th, 2006 at 8:27 am
Naive? Or I’m just a positive person who believes MANY more people could do it if given the chance, or take a chance… Yeah, I guess I’m just naive– I should just be a shot in the dark and not encourage anyone to think differently.
September 26th, 2006 at 9:19 am
>>It’s pretty naive of you to think every budding creator that shows as much potential as you will get the same deal DJ.
Any deal is better than no deal if you weren’t going to get one to begin with.
On top of that, if this is successful, then those who follow DJ might end up getting a better deal as the industry realizes there’s money to be made from good talent and competition drives up the incentive to sign those with talent.
September 26th, 2006 at 9:20 am
I didn’t mean that. I meant that you’re being naive about why you got such a good deal. Platinum’s media train didn’t start rolling with the Times article.
September 26th, 2006 at 9:50 am
You know… the same argument about money could be used to people using something like LULU to publish their books. They sell for a certain price and the creators get signifigantly LESS than they would if they sold or printed them on their own.
Again– guess we’ll have to wait and see on the Drunk Duck thing, I just don’t want people putting scare tactics out there with NO PROOF that anyone has been screwed by Platinum, or anyone publically stating or complaining they got a sour deal or felt screwed over. If I ever felt like I had a problem, I’d talk to Platinum, not some shlub at a comicon.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:31 am
When that schlub at the con comes up and tells you he got screwed by Platinum because you got a good deal, let me know so I can pass on an I tried to warn you.
September 26th, 2006 at 12:41 pm
DJ,
I gotta say, I am all for creator’s rights and all that jazz. The folks who said that have a point, but as you knowingly entered into a situation where you were selling your rights as a creator and getting compensation for it, I don’t really see the heart of their argument. I’ve heard of many situations where, musicians especially, can record something original for someone to listen to (say a music produces) and give away all their rights to that song in perpetuity, receiving no money or recognition for their work.
From the way you explain things, it does sound like a good deal for you, since you get to break into bigger markets and for the company since they are getting someone dedicated as well as a receptive audience for their ads.
Since I’m too lazy to look up Kurtz’ arguments, I’ll just shit-talk him on your website. Kurtz blows goats, I have proof.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Mike says:
“For the record, I’m saying it should be all just comics, that’s how I view it. Trust me, I feel no sense of elitism.”
I didn’t mean to imply anything else, man. I was referring to others, not you.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
“but as you knowingly entered into a situation where you were selling your rights as a creator and getting compensation for it, I don’t really see the heart of their argument.”
Yeah, and this is why I feel bad bringing anything up, because it seems like I’m shitting on DJ’s parade. You have a lot to be happy about right now, DJ! And I’m not trying to say that you’ve blown it, or even that this will bite you in the ass. Ride this thing for all it’s worth.
But I get seriously apprehensive when I hear something is the next rising tide that will lift all boats. Webcomics has had a lot of similar announcements that didn’t lift anyone’s boats, and wasted people’s time besides. If anything, you should be preaching how you took a chance and won the lottery, not saying “in six months, everyone will have winning lottery tickets.”
September 26th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
Kris– I know you guys are cautious, thats fine. But isn’t it better then to try the “wait and see” approach. Instead of “tearing down” anyone else’s positive news.
You and Scott pretty much took a great news item for Drunk Duck and smeared it around to mean nothing for them or the creators involved, whenever both of you, and even I myself don’t have all the information.
Hey, I saw Gigcast was opening up questions for that Dylan Squires guy, the owner of Drunk Duck, on the gigcast site– why not post some of your questions there– i think it might be helpful. http://www.nightgig.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2198
Hey, I’m still excited about this deal because I DO think it’s news, and I do think it’s a groundbreaking move and a first in the world of webcomics. Who knows where it’ll go from here.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:59 pm
The biggest problem I have with Drunk Duck is that, as a guy who loves webcomics, I can’t see any reason to spend time on the site. It’s a mess. Show me a reason to add Drunk Duck to my Morning Coffee links list, and I’ll be there with bells on. But from what I see, there’s just a number of undistinguished webcomics.
You’re an excellent webcomics artist, DJ. So why don’t you pimp us some good DD webcomics? Tell me what I’m missing. I’m *always* looking for good webcomics.
September 26th, 2006 at 4:18 pm
It’s not DJ’s job to validate Drunk Duck’s existence.
It seems to me that where the argument is originating from is that Platinum said something to the effect that webcomics weren’t printed before. Someone PLEASE show me where they said ANYTHING CLOSE to this. Did I miss a memo, because the only thing I caught in the article was that they mentioned that a publisher hasn’t owned a webcomic community before. Ummmm……That’s true, isn’t it? Why all this petulant sarcasm?
September 26th, 2006 at 5:02 pm
DJ, Kris and I are not trying to smear around the DD news item so that it means nothing. All we’re trying to do is advise the kids who might buy into the hype to look past the hyperbole and examine what’s really happening and what’s really possible.
If someone offers a kid a contract for their work, they need to be awake and aware and well advised. And they need to understand that they are allowed to question things and say no. They should understand what’s realistic and possible what what’s pie in the sky.
If you truly are pro webcomics, then what the fuck is wrong with encouraging people to be aware and realistic? How is that bad advice? Why are you so against us deflating any fluff or hyperbole associated with the purchase of a 3rd rate comic strip web portal?
September 26th, 2006 at 5:29 pm
Because Scott, it’s the way you and others go about it. Even in your last sentence there, you’re ALWAYS passive aggressive or backhanded, then when someone calls you on shit, you say you were just being sarcastic.
“purchase of a 3rd rate comic strip web portal”
I think we’re just talking past each other because you don’t see the NEWS in it at all. It is pretty big news. And if you re-read the article. you’ll see it’s primarily about PLATINUM COMIC BOOKS going to the web— I think one of the “walls” talked about tearing down is currently publishers, BIG publishers, think that the web is ONLY GOOD FOR PROMOTION. Even Marvel said that in that article pretty much. Beyond comic publishers, BIGGER publishers also see FREE ON THE WEB approaches as BAD BAD BAD…. Platinum is pretty much saying it CAN be done and they’re doing it through Drunk Duck.
It would be news if that “3rd rate” webcomics portal became the biggest one in the eyes of the public, wouldn’t it? I mean, it COULD happen. They’re already doing more and planning more than any other hubs I’ve heard of with plans that they have.
Will Platinum SWOOP IN and make some sprite comics uber famous.. No, I dont think anyone is saying that. Platinum is saying they are going to come to the web with THEIR projects and also do print, tv, movies, unicorns, the works. AND they are going to try to help open avenues so some hard working creators on Drunk Duck CAN make money from their works. I dont think it’s bad AT ALL.
No one ever suggested not questioning contracts, numbers, agreements. But maybe the BETTER thing would be to suggest a BETTER deal to them and why, instead of just running around smearing it. That’s what I’m doing. People are complaning about the 90/10 thing, but no one knows the exact deal here. I think there is more to it than that. — I mean, how was it fair to complain about ad revenue, when it’s a FREE HOST… no other freehosts share ad revenue with their creators.
Anyway, if you’re going to open your mouth and say something is BAD– maybe suggest what would be acceptable and MORE PLACES like Platinum might immerge and open more doors for more HARD WORKING creators. No one says it’ll make a living for a giant sum of people. You don’t have that in comics anyway.
September 26th, 2006 at 6:10 pm
First of all, Platinum Studios is not a large comic book publishing company. That’s more the hyperbole I’m talking about. Platinum owns the rights to a large stable of properties but they have no published any comics in the last 10-20 years, correct? So they are not a large comic book publishing house adopting the web. That’s not true.
2nd of all, other comic publishers have already covered this terriroty with varied degrees of success. Marvel has done it, Crossgen did it, Graphic Smash does it, Modern Tales does it. Others have been here and tried this already. This is not a first by any means. Crossgen comics is probably the closest example of a similar event. They had millions invested in comics, had made flash-animated their books and offered them online. It’s been done.
Platinum is not going to open doors for hard working creators. Platinum is in the business of aquiring properties for development and building their brand. That’s what Platinum is in the business of. That’s not bad, or evil. But it’s also not an altruistic mission to open doors of opportunity for those hard working creators currently languishing in obscurity.
And for you or anyone to suggest that is, in my opinion, irresponsible.
September 26th, 2006 at 6:20 pm
Oh, please. You’ve been sarcastic and backhanded all day, and now you’re suddenly altruisticly watching out for the huddling masses. If you have an actual point to make, you should make it first instead of shitting on everyone’s heads and then make a point after everyones angry. Well, I suppose you can do it your way, but it is, in my opinion, irresponsible.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:02 pm
Irresponsible? Naw. They bought and invested in a webcomics hosting site. Thats news to me. While other comics have put their print comics online, like Crossgen, they didn’t full adapt webcomic into their business models, only used the web as simple promo for their print books.
and yeah, yeah, they havent had a book come out yet– but when they do in December, or mine in Spring– it’ll likely never be enough. It’ll turn into “well they only put out BLANK amount of books”
What would happen, hypothetically, if 5 or 6 webcomics on Drunk duck got animated shows or something? Would THAT be news? Just hypothetically. I mean, they do say they’d like to simulate things that happened like the MIB thing by using Drunk Duck’s outlet. I’m just wondering how that would be bad for WEBCOMICS or comics as a whole. I don’t think it would. And whether you like to admit it or not, Platinum has those avenues to go down, and pretty much no other webcomic place does. (maybe keenspot) but I mean, not regularly, EVERY day in contact with other medias and right in the heart of that scene.
You said… “Platinum is not going to open doors for hard working creators. ”
THAT is an irresponsible statement, Kurtz. A door was opened for me, and I’ve been working at mutiple avenues for YEARS. Hell, we even had books in quiet talks with people that went no where. But your quote there is false– I’m proof. And it won’t be JUST ME. I know of other projects and things coming along that will give people the same shots. But you’re right– It’s not Platinum that will make or break it, it’s really the creators making GOOD STORIES that are worth reading or entertaining to read. And believe me, everyone on the comic book side of things at Platinum KNOWS THAT. Again– you have beef with them, why not ask questions to them if you’re so worried about it.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:17 pm
The Internet - Come for the comics, Stay for the drama.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
“Irresponsible? Naw. They bought and invested in a webcomics hosting site. Thats news to me. While other comics have put their print comics online, like Crossgen, they didn’t full adapt webcomic into their business models, only used the web as simple promo for their print books.”
That’s what the web is doing for them too. They’re just a little bit, well, a lot smarter about it.
“and yeah, yeah, they havent had a book come out yet– but when they do in December, or mine in Spring– it’ll likely never be enough. It’ll turn into “well they only put out BLANK amount of books”
For most people coming here the one in Spring is enough to credit them with at least one great comic. Nobody’s doubting you about this deal at all.
“What would happen, hypothetically, if 5 or 6 webcomics on Drunk duck got animated shows or something? Would THAT be news? etc etc”
That would be news indeed. And maybe one side or the other would get their proof about the deals. Maybe EVEN A FILM. At least then one side would have conclusive proof. But like Scott said Platinum is not going to open doors for hard working creators.
Who got you that deal with Platinum? You and the fans who voted for you. Why? Because you’ve proved every day that you believe in what you do and work hard. The animation gig comes round for you specifically? It’ll be because you worked hard and pushed for it. Platinum works to add propeties to their portfolio so they can shop them around for the next big deal.
DJ, stop taking all this as a personal affront to you. We’re talking on your webpage, to be here must mean we like you. Some of us are just worried about the way this shit’s going down.
Maybe re-listen to Straub’s slipcast. It does bring up some good points.
September 26th, 2006 at 8:15 pm
I’m not going to comment on a lot here, but for Mr. Kurtz-whatever your intent was in your initial news post, it came off as very sarcastic towards DJ Coffman, not cautionary. You may have intended to warn others that the deal DJ has with Platinum doesn’t mean similar deals will start to spread across the webcomics world, but it sounded (such an ironic word for text) petty and sniping. Beyond that, I have nothing to say.
September 26th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
Yeah, I admit to taking the talk about Platinum a little too personally. I just know some of the people there, I’ve talked to Scott Rosenberg at length on many of these issues and it sure seems like many of them could be resolved with just real communication, instead of speculation. - And Rosenberg has helped a lot of creators quietly. You ever hear someone trashing your one of your friends and you feel like stepping up for them? That’s how I feel about it. I know, it’s probably not smart on my part, but I’m no Einstein.
But yeah, I’d better learn to not take criticism of Platinum too personally. It’s just, well, I have a book there and all, one that I believe in. One that LOTS of people believe in, so I want to make it the best possible thing I can do.
September 26th, 2006 at 9:48 pm
So do what you always do. Do it well.
Sorry for being a bit of an a-hole. I’ve had a long day and a dentist appointment which never put me in a good mood. And some of the things that have been happening look suspect to a marketing coup and, well, you are being a bit naive about the whole thing.
Never met Rosenberg, probably never will. Can’t say I like or dislike the guy and that was never the issue at discussion from many of us. The article, the buying of drunk duck and arguably, your contract, seem to fold together into one neat little package of “HEY! LOOK AT THIS SHIT! YOU COULD BE RICH TOO!”
Sniping or not that’s the point Kurtz was trying to make and had I been more eloquent the point I would’ve made first. Maybe each and every person attached to a keyboard should be forced to take ettiquette lessons. That’d be something wouldn’t it?
September 27th, 2006 at 12:17 am
I love Kurtz’ comic, but… why does he always comes off like Maureen O’Hara from John Candy’s “Only The Lonely” ? Where yea, his best interest for John Candy, us, the webcomic community is there, but he does it in a crass “tell it like it is” way?
” Well that’s what you do, ma. Just ‘tellin it like it is’. “
September 27th, 2006 at 5:20 am
Nick Nitro wins the internet.
September 27th, 2006 at 7:08 am
Correction. Internets.
September 27th, 2006 at 11:04 pm
Score.