Platinum Ducks, Images and Distortions.
First, I just want to say, anything I say here is my own opinion. I might be off. I’m not speaking for Platinum, or toeing some company line– I’m passionate about this because I have a good deal with Platinum and I just don’t like seeing them dragged through the little webcomic world mud.
There’s been much bruhaha made over Platinum acquiring Drunk Duck, and a lot of people worried that they’re out to screw over creators. Now, I sort of CAME from the “Comic Book World”, wherein when I was a teenager I dreamed of being the next “hotshot” young Rob Liefeld, McFarlane, whatever, I daydreamed and it was fun. But I was involved in comics in Southern California, and I’ve followed the news for some time, and I also have a LONG memory.
Scott Kurtz, who’s done a lot of yammering about Scott Rosenberg owner of Platinum, even linking to articles from over 20 years ago to try to discredit his name, when I told Kurtz that maybe he should think about Rosenberg a little more, did he know that Rosenberg helped to start Image Comics, the publisher that NOW publishes PvP? Scott Kurtz pretty much told me “fuck you” and that it wasn’t true, Actually one of his public quotes is
“It’s not because of anything Rosenberg did that caused millions of copies of Savage Dragon, Spawn, Wildcats and Youngblood to sell. That was all the founders. “
I just disagreed with that statement, because knowing my comic book history like i did, I thought I remembered that Rosenberg and Malibu Graphics had a LOAD to do with Image getting going. Well, everyone can watch this CNN news story about Image Founding:
So, there you go. Right from the news I remembered. Sure, I guess those 8 guys could have gone with another company, but the fact is, they all trusted Scott Rosenberg, he gave them the tools they needed to get IMAGE COMICS off the ground. Hell, even one of them . Erik Larsen, is Scott Kurtz’s publisher now. Think about that. I’m not calling Kurtz a blowhard, but when he sort of totally outright discounted Rosenberg having anything to do with Image, it set me back a little. I thought maybe I was wrong, but no, I wasn’t.
Now, this really doesn’t mean anything about the Drunk Deal, the NY Times article, etc, except the fact that Rosenberg is the man behind Platinum and it’s missions. The same Rosenberg who valued creator rights in that news story about Image is the same one you can talk to today– I recall back in 1991, there were a lot of people in comics, a lot of retailers, readers, other publishers that said Image would never work. People called Malibu a “3rd rate” publisher— whats going on in webcomics right now is all very reminiscent of what was going on back in print comics back then. I know there is a lot of posturing right now, there are places like Blank Label who left Keenspot, and I remember the yabbering about how they were like the “Image Comics” of webcomics, after they said the same thing about PV Comics prior….and so on and so on….. So yeah, I think this WHOLE TIME, all these news stories, be it about R. Stevens, Keenspot, Platinum, people winning awards, it’s ALL Good for COMICS.
And frankly, no one is talking about the STORIES. what kind of stories are people going to tell??? That’s the next step here for webcomics… sure there are several genres, storylines, etc… but we hear more about the people and systems, models, then we do the actual plots and stories. I think that will be the real next thing to bring it to a new level, focusing on talking about the STORIES.
Sure COMICS isn’t an EASY thing to make a living at. But people shouldn’t condemn me for being encouraged and telling people that it CAN happen for you if you work hard enough. You have to really want it, and it can take a LONG time, but everyone DOES have an equal shot if you’re creative enough.
And yeah, I’m aware this seems like a bunch of cheerleading Platinum on my part. I’ve never CHANGED or sold out. I did the SAME thing back when COMIXPRESS launched. There were other people complaining saying it wouldnt work, and I called that a REVOLUTION as well– I wasn’t saying Comixpress invented PRINT-ON-DEMAND, but they sure did perfect it for COMIC BOOKS and the independent creator. And from just things I’ve heard or see unfolding with Platinum, just as I’ve championed other stuff like Comixpress, I’ll champion anything that “I” think is good for independent creators.
Stay tuned… and “wait and see”.
September 27th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
what kind of stories are there to tell? that’s the key. nice point. and brother, you really SHOULD encourage people to make it in comics if they want to. I do too. I’ve been around comics almost as long as you, and it IS hard, but you know, I’m making a living doing this now too. I remember all the doubters, naysayers and all the people who told me I was crazy 10 years ago, well, it DOES take time, but it can be done. It all reminds me of a great saying by Oliver Wendel Holmes, Jr.
“The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving.”
-Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
September 27th, 2006 at 5:11 pm
I liked you a lot better before you SOLD OUT, DJ.
September 27th, 2006 at 6:48 pm
I just got off the phone with Erik Larsen over at Image Comics.
He gave me a history lesson of Image and Malibu.
According to Erik, who I do believe was actually THERE at the time, the deal between Image and Malibu was that of publisher.
The Image founders went to Malibu because they were looking for someone to handle publishing. Malibu logos were not going to appear on the books. Image existed as a company and entity entirely seperate from Malibu. Malibu had no editoral control over the books.
According to Erik, and I’m paraphrasing from our phone converstaion “Malibu helped us publish. They weren’t even publishing in color at the time. We needed a publisher to get started but we didn’t stay very long. Malibu certainly helped us but if they, or Rosenberg, hadn’t been there, we would have just gone with somebody else.”
So the bottom line, DJ, is that I was correct. Image’s founding and success lies squarly on the shoulders of the the eight Image founders and not because of Rosenberg or Malibu. Malibu played a part but if they hand’t been there, someone else would have.
To say that Malibu graphics, or Scott Rosenberg is responsible for the forming of Image is akin to saying that Diamond Comics Distributors was responsible for them. Because after all, they couldn’t have done it without Diamond, right?
Now, let’s see if you have the balls to print a retraction to what you posted today.
September 27th, 2006 at 6:58 pm
Also,
How did you find that clip DJ? According to Youtube it was added to the site today. What a coincidence that the day you went looking for a clip to support your claim, it magically appears on youtube.
Wow. That is amazingly good luck.
September 27th, 2006 at 7:21 pm
I still think you’re wrong– it’s easy to say “we could have gone with someone else” and maybe they would have but would it have worked out the same? Who knows. Who cares– this is the history of what actually happened, just like I told you. All I said was, if it wasnt’ for Rosenberg and Malibu, Image might not have taken off like it did, because Malibu was in a better position for all of those guys and that idea. And that is JUST as fair a statement as someone saying “if we didn’t go with them, we would have used someone else”— so you can take a retraction and shove it. This is MY opinion. If I had a time machine, we could go back and see if who they COULD have gone with, but we’re talking actual history here. Erik wouldn’t disagree that Rosenberg was helpful to them, ask any of the founders even- ask away, it still doesnt change my point.
– but you can continue to call him the bogeyman or whatever man, it’s ok, people can watch that clip and judge for themselves. I get a giggle that you’re published by a company that was helped launch by a person you slam online. That’s all. I just wanted you to take a LONGER look at the situations before having kneejerk reactions.
Even the 90/10 thing was off, and no one asked Platinum. Go read on Drunk Duck, that’s where I just found out.
September 27th, 2006 at 7:25 pm
Oh, and I’m not 100% certain on this one.. but the Malibu Logo was on the inside of the first Image comics, including Savage Dragon #1, if my memory is correct- Im going to my basement to go look because I know exactly where that’s at. — not on the cover, but inside cover I do believe.
September 27th, 2006 at 7:39 pm
Yeah.. it’s on the inside cover– just checked. YOu probably meant the COVER. Oh, I also found I had a Savage Dragon Wizard Chromium card and an index signed card in there too with it– heh.
And I never said he founded Image. I said he helped them out, and if it wasn’t for Malibu, maybe things wouldnt have gone so smoothly for those guys-
But you and some others should maybe think about the “wait and see” approach, I think it would work out SPLENDIDLY for you.
September 27th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
NEWS FLASH ! EXTRA ! EXTRA ! Embittered and EXTREMELY jealous ” webbies ” put triple cheeseburger with bacon down just long enough to bitch about D. J. Coffman - and what he’s done that they didn’t have the talent to do ! Now , pick up your cheeseburgers and unhook your belt buckles , fatty fatty mcbutterslacks . Man , it just eats you alive how far ahead of the curve Coffman is - in vision and DEFINITELY talent - then you can ever hope to be . So stop stammering and hiding behind false pretenses and just admit you wish you were the man that he is . Do think that ‘ s the end o’ the story , eh ?
September 27th, 2006 at 7:58 pm
Anybody else watching the Yirmumah and PvP blogs response sections with a big bowl of popcorn and a cold soda? Screw Susan Lucci; the real soap operas are online!
Seriously, though. If the 90/10 offer is so bad, then DDers simply don’t have to use it. Since the creators retain the rights to their work, they can explore other avenues for revenue, like Cafepress and the like. It’s pretty much what webcomickers have been doing up to this point. The DD merch plan just sounds like a slightly more accesible way to sell swag. This has been the biggest area of controversy, but it’s like TV - if you don’t like what’s on, then don’t watch it. If you don’t like the 90/10 merch plan, then don’t use it. Simple as that, right?
So come on, folks, let’s stop the fussin’ and the feudin’. Webcomics may have hit a new step in the road to greater acceptance. And as comic makers, we should at least wait to see how this thing plays out before any of us throw down the gauntlets.
September 27th, 2006 at 8:05 pm
Sean is right . Hell , even I can accept his reasoning - and I’ve made a lucrative career out of being a comic artist myself….and i can’t even draw FEET !! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! I can’t believe you accumulated numbnuts bought my crap and never even bothered to check out the lack of feet ! I win !
September 27th, 2006 at 8:12 pm
Thank you all so much - truly , I don ‘t have the words nor does my family - for keeping Scott Kurtz occupied with sad arse pettiness and prolonging my caloric life even for just a few more minutes . Oh…how sweet this life was . If only I had had the courage …to love.
September 27th, 2006 at 8:17 pm
You guys are nuts… but yeah, even the 90/10 thing was blown way out of proportion before anyone at Platinum or DD could respond. According to a post at drunkduck right now, by Dylan– naysayers and worrywarts should go check that out.
September 27th, 2006 at 8:27 pm
Ah-ha-ha-ha. I’m fat. How funny.
Anyway. DJ. I can’t get you any clearer information than that straight from Erik Larsen’s mouth. If he says they would have gone with somebody else and that saying that Rosenberg is responsible for the Image taking off…then I believe him.
I guess I epsecially believe him over you.
Also, please go back and read all my public speakings in regards to Platinum and Scott Rosenberg. I never call him the boogeyman. That is you putting words in my mouth. All I am doing is encouraging creators to do their homework, ask questions and remember to keep in mind the realities versus the hyperbole when it comes to new opportunities.
P.S. Do you plan to discuss the origin of that clip you link to at all? Or are you just going to pretend I didn’t mention that. Who put that clip up, DJ. How did you know it was there?
September 27th, 2006 at 8:31 pm
Yes ! Keep him occupied . I’ve now survived more than 3 times the expected life span of ANY fried item in Scott Kurts’ abode . God bless you all ! Keep him occupied . Please ! I just want to see little jimmy play his first baseball game…..please?
September 27th, 2006 at 8:33 pm
DJ, considering the shit-stirring reputation you have (and have admitted to), I’ve noticed you’re overwhelmingly positive and excited about everything comics and are very encouraging to those looking into getting into the biz. And while I may just not be looking hard enough, I’ve never seen you get pissy when someone didn’t follow your professional advice to a t.
You, on the other hand, Kurtz… You’re feeling you have to write something like, “Swing for the fences,” defending yourself against notions of being “frightened, jealous, or unhappy with the success of others,” says something about your reputation as well. But it’s not those notions you mention that you get your rep from - it’s your pissy attitude when someone (Keenspot, individual cartoonists, etc) doesn’t treat your advice/opinions like the gold nuggets of wisdom you think they are.
That said, I think you’re both good cartoonists, and I’m glad I can enjoy your work outside the realms of personality.
September 27th, 2006 at 8:37 pm
Whoa there , cheeseburger . Don’t be taking the credit for ultimate survivor just yet ! I’ve been stashed in his med cabinet for 6 days now whilst he nibbles me away in between flossings . Give credit where credits due . Respec ‘!
September 27th, 2006 at 8:42 pm
Scott– (sorry about the fat posts, lame) I’m doing the SAME thing you did, when you linked an article that was over 20 years old in saying people should do research, people should see that, they should see everything the guy was involved with, including helping out Image get started– It was only my opinion about maybe Image wouldnt be around without Malibus help.. we’d need a time machine or a What If issue to find out.
As for the clip, I missed your post. I did some asking around in my club section the other day if there was any news stories online or anything about the Image founding in relation to Malibu graphics, and someone e-mailed me the link today, not related to Platinum at all– just someone who agrees with my statement. — I figure it’s from somewhere else online and they moved it to youtube so I could post it on my site??? who cares– there it is. It speaks for itself. There’s no CRAZY conspiracy going on trust me.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:26 pm
Holy crap . They’re sending me over to Kurtzs’ house . Do you people have any idea as to how many personal pan friends I’ve lost over there ?! It’s a damn war there and the casualties are mounting ! Oh ,dear lord , please spare me this one time . Please….make him….get…the shits…..
September 27th, 2006 at 9:41 pm
Look, DJ…you and Scott have nothing to worry about from me.
You guys are big boys. Platinum purchasing Drunk Duck and claiming that they are going to finally bridge the gap between comics and the web is a public news story and people (including myself) are going to comment and share my opinions.
You can make posts disparaging me, Scott can call me at the house and pretend he doesn’t understand if I was being sarcastic or not. It doesn’t matter. I’m not saying anything bad about Platinum. I’m just encouraging people to cut through the hyperbole, be realistic and be careful when entering into any contract.
That’s perfect sound and positive advice. Just because I don’t think Platinum coming to the web is a huge step forward for creators, doesn’t mean I’m anti anybody or trying to make anyone out to be the boogeyman.
So you can post all the clips you want, and call me a blowhard all you want. You can all continue to mock my weight. It’s fine. We’re all adults.
I’ve said everything I’ve needed to say on the matter and got my point across.
Enjoy your new position at Platinum. I truly hope it works out for you.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
“All I am doing is encouraging creators to do their homework, ask questions and remember to keep in mind the realities versus the hyperbole when it comes to new opportunities.”
No, you are also going out and posting, “Now, let’s see if you have the balls to print a retraction to what you posted today” as well as “What a coincidence that the day you went looking for a clip to support your claim, it magically appears on youtube.”
Don’t claim to be only offering advice when you spit venom around like that.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:52 pm
You sick fuckers make fun of my name ONE MORE TIME, and there’ll be hell to pay.
You hear me?
HELL.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:52 pm
Thanks Scott– I just want you to know, when you repeatedly do it, to me and others I talk to, it seems passive aggressive to say you’re not slamming anyone, but then continuely mocking them or brushing it off and saying you were being “sarcastic”
Again– a point I made to someone else– You say creators should be careful when entering into any contract– no one said anyone suggested otherwise. And if anyone wants an opinion of what it’s like working for Platinum in the here and now, you can ask me.
Speaking of which– I have a crapload of editing to do before bed.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
Well, I do think that Platinum is full of hubris. And I personally do not believe that they are poised to revolutionize comics, nor do I believe that they are going to provide some amazing new opportunites for creators.
That, is my personal opinion. I’m allowed to express it, especially on my website.
As for the venom I’m spitting around here, yeah. Of course. Go back and read the post I’m responding to. What do you expect.
I believe that that clip came from someone at Platinum and that it was posted today so that DJ could link to it. Again that’s my opinion. Can someone offer another explination as to how a clip from 20 years ago got put on youtube today exactly as DJ was looking for it?
So listen, I think it’s pretty obvious what’s going on and you certainly don’t need me to spell it out. You’re free to form your own opinions on everything.
But please. I’m entitled to my opinions and I’m entitled to speak them.
I’m certainly not going to apologize for that.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:23 pm
” My - Bologna - Has - A -First - Name -It’s - O - S - C -A - R , My - Bologna - Has - A …. Oh ,crap . Kurtz just ate the rest of my song . Suck it , poorly -thought -out- hypocritical- and -caught -in-his-own-blame-ray- text -boy !!
September 27th, 2006 at 10:37 pm
Scott– we all heard your opinion on it, and now you’re freakish paranoia about the video from 1992. I asked on Monday for ANY video, articles or anything positive about Platinum as soon as you and others started the negative spin– and as far as “I” know, it came from someone named GILES who’s been a club member of mine for years and I think owned a comic book store at one time. What, you want to go hunt him down? Or should we let him send you a VHS or tell you where HE got it so you look like a retarded idiot. He probably got it as easily as I went to my basement and looked for that Savage Dragon #1 with the Malibu logo in the front cover. You don’t think that’s possible??? I mean, I can be your DICK TRACY if you want me to, but what the crap does it matter when I’m telling you where I got it. That’s nutso.
Ok.. so we heard your opinion, some venom and some paranoia on your part. You’re entitle to ALL of it–
so now all that’s left is for you to “wait and see” what they do. Me too, actually. I hope they prove you wrong, even in the slightest and you have to eat your words one day– but something tells me that every step along the way, anytime Platinum is mentioned in the press or whatever, you’re big mouth will be shooting off about it in some manner.
September 28th, 2006 at 12:03 am
Scott, while I really enjoy the comics from both creators here, I can’t help but feel a little jealousy when you talk about Platinum. Yeah, guys like you and PA forged the path and had to do it yourselves but then you were really one of a few in webcomics. Would you have done as well if you posted your original comic today? Would the broad audience respond to you if you didn’t have an awesome level of archieves and established character to back it up? Why would the guy we cheered for as you fought against the grain, offered up your work for free to print and had to forge a living on his own suddenly seem to HATE the fact that someone is making a business out of converting online media properties into “real” works like movies, TV and … (dah da da DAH!) print comics? What the hell would Jack Kirby say?! To both of you damn it.
September 28th, 2006 at 12:32 am
Soul Search,
I have no jealousy towards Platinum or any creator that might sign with them. I think it’s great when mainstream comic companies notice the web. I wish Marvel and DC would really take steps towards setting up original content online. I think that would be huge. So far they have taken very small baby-steps.
Crossgen Comics really made a go of it, and it was sad to see the company fold. Because I think they had a good thing going and they understood the importance of the web.
You pose an interesting question in regards to how PvP would do if it were starting now as opposed to 1998. Same for Penny-Arcade. A lot of luck went into my being able to go full time in 2000 (the dot com boom and the content media companies that sprang from it to be exact).
If you are asking me, would PvP and Penny-Arcade stand out from the crowd if they started now….I would say yes, eventually. As it did back then. I think starting now it would be easier. Bandwidth is cheaper, there are print on demand places like lulu.com. We didn’t have any of that. We didn’t have webcomics nation or drunk duck or keenspace or any of that. So yeah. I think it would happen eventually for us if we started now.
Just like when we started then.
Keep in mind, it took PvP and Penny-Arcade years of going at it before we had any real audience or success to speak of.
September 28th, 2006 at 2:01 am
Don’t forget that Tim Buckley mimicked both Penny Arcade and PvP in 2002, four plus years after they started, and is now arguably a bigger success than at least one of them.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:26 am
Well, Tim fills a nice void left by the fact that both PvP and Penny-Arcade evolved away from what they were three to five years ago.
There are still readers who wishes PvP was nothing but random video game references. There are still readers who wishes Penny-Arcade was just random stupid violence.
Our readers have grown with the strips, but some miss 1999-2001.
And Tim’s work nicely recreates PvP and Penny-Arcade circa 1999-2001.
September 28th, 2006 at 8:45 am
I just want to state from ME, that I don’t think it’s jealousy or anything like that at all. Scott is way successful and happy with his stuff.
September 28th, 2006 at 7:39 pm
Especailly if it’s deep fried and marinated with chocolate and pork chops .
September 29th, 2006 at 3:32 am
When I get famous as a webcomicker, do I get my own arch- nemesis, too?
September 29th, 2006 at 8:38 am
It depends on how mouthy or petty you are.