The Revolution Will Be Webcomicized!
Ok, so the big news today, “Hero By Night” made it in the New York Times article, see full article here. — But forget me for a moment, the story is about Platinum Studios buying Drunk Duck (a free webcomics hosting service) and a whole new chapter for comics on the web has opened. I realize anything I say after this will just be considered “cheerleading” to some, because I am involved with Platinum, but when I entered that comic book challenge contest, I had no idea about their webcomic or new media plans, and when I found out about those after winning the contest, to me, it was like winning multiple contests, just to be involved or attached to an endeavor of the sort.
Now, why is this big news? Well, for years I’ve been yabbering that sooner or later someone would come along who saw the real potential in the webcomic medium mixed with print and other media and totally “tear down the walls” that have been built in consumer minds about web vs. print, or the notions that if you’re publishing online you must be an amateur.
Well, amateur hour is over for webcomics. I can’t officially spout off a plan for DrunkDuck/Platinum and the web, I don’t want to misspeak or have things twisted that I say– but I can tell you that this is the biggest opportunity to come along for creators on the web, period in my opinion.
I do believe the first Platinum book will be Cowboys and Aliens (coming in December) but the webcomic side launches on the 28th, this thursday. And take a look at the website, http://cowboysandaliens.net - Sweet design along with a sweet teaser trailer. Totally slick and professional.
There’s been some confusion elsewhere and in my inbox today that this means Hero By Night won’t see print first or will be launched online for free. Here’s the deal. The actual book series is planned to come out in stores in March of 2007 (in previews January) - now, we’re also working on a stand alone webcomic that will debut soon (Oct or Nov maybe) but it will again be it’s own thing, nothing in the book. Hero By Night has a different sort of deal going on because of the contest and the nature of all of that, I do believe the contracts and all that are different. Platinum outright OWNS Hero By Night because I sold it to them, but I’m still the creator on it, etc. And whoa, judging by the sweet design on the Cowboys and Aliens site, I can’t wait to see what they do with the HBN site… some neato things planned.
With the DrunkDuck deal, they won’t outright own your work just by being on there, but what they WILL do for you, (again this is just from my general knowledge of the dealings) — it will open up revenue streams for your work that they will handle, and if your comic hosted there is successful enough, you can likely go license or do things with Platinum like I’m lucky enough to be doing.
Bottom line, the way I see it is, it’s going to be up to the individual creators or creative teams to decide how much time, skill, they want to put into their projects. How big can they grow their audience? What kind of GOOD STORIES can they tell? What kind of kick butt art can they put into their projects? The sky has been the limit on the creative side for some time, but now the sky is the limit on the business side of WEBCOMICS as well. …. And i hear Platinum has one of those cool flying glass elevators like in Willy Wonka…. but they fly around in it, I tend to push too many buttons and I might break it.
Links of note– The full NY TIMES ARTICLE.
Cowboys and Aliens (webcomic coming Thursday)
September 25th, 2006 at 12:21 pm
We have to login to read it. Anyone registered with the Times and can do a cut and paste the article into these comments?
September 25th, 2006 at 2:29 pm
I plopped it down in the forum for everyone’s eyes and enjoyment!
http://www.yirmumah.djcoffman.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=36426#36426
b
September 25th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
You don’t have to subscribe to the paper. You can register for free and read the articles online for free after that.
September 25th, 2006 at 2:46 pm
I also just edited this article and made correct links…
September 25th, 2006 at 3:49 pm
Kurtz needs to get off his sky high horse.
http://www.pvponline.com/blog/2895/platinum-studios-to-barriers-screw-you#comment
September 25th, 2006 at 4:42 pm
Fred Van Lente is writing Cowboys & Aliens? That guy is an awesome writer: I saw his work on “The Silencers” and “Action Philosophers!” a year or two ago at SPX in Bethesda.
As for Platinum buying DrunkDuck…have they bothered to notice the sheer amount of crappy sprite comics that permeate that site? Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see where this goes.
September 25th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
Haus: yeah, Platinum will be moving some neat webcomics onto Drunk Duck of thier own making, including my Hero By Night exclusive webcomic… the book is still soemthing seperate though too, comes out in the Spring.
Prim: Kurtz is an idiot and probably doesn’t care or see how this would be good for anyone. I hope he shoots himself in the foot somehow with this blabbering. it’s a small, small world.
September 25th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
[…] and DJ Coffman will likely be seeing his Hero By Night comic hosted on Drunk Duck. […]
September 25th, 2006 at 5:59 pm
I’m praying that you got a better deal than the 90% Platinum, 10% creator all the other DrunkDuck cartoonists are getting.
September 25th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Wow, DJ…
You have totally sold out.
September 25th, 2006 at 6:47 pm
Scott-
You seemed completely offended by the idea that people would want to make money off their ideas without toiling away for years doing what you’ve done. Look, I’m an actor and 99% of my time before I got an agent, manager and publicist was spent marketing myself so that I could spend 1% of my time acting. By that rational, have I now sold out because I have those people doing the stuff that I don’t want to do, seeing as how they take a sizable amount of every gig I get? I’m happy to pay that because I would be making a lot less without them. I don’t really know Platinum or what they do exactly, but it doesn’t sound all that different. How has DJ sold out here?
September 25th, 2006 at 6:51 pm
Wait, huh? Sold out??? Wow, you really are an iconoclast by Scott McCloud’s defintion! Go figure.
I’m an Animist. Selling out to me would be selling off Yirmumah and letting someone else run it, which won’t happen.
I’m excited about the Platinum deal because it’s MY opinion that it will be good for creators who wouldnt have avenues opened to them otherwise. I’m all for it–
Get along little doggy, back to your ivory tower.
September 25th, 2006 at 6:54 pm
Kris– Don’t worry, I got a good deal and I’m totally happy. I get paid to draw a cool ass super hero comic of my making. Sure, Platinum bought it from me, but I’m in the drivers seat on the creative aspects, and yeah man, it’s been fun, and I’m making real money on it, so it’s cool. I’d rather not talk about how much or what my deal is. — interested creators should maybe go pitch something to Platinum, then negotiate with them if you have a project that they might want.
September 25th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
“Sold out”…?
Are there honestly people in this world who still throw that around as an insult? Or is Scott Kurtz still in junior high?
I guess the real question is: Do I really give a fuck?
Congrats on the free press and kickass new gig, DJ! Don’t let the yapping little chihuahuas get you down. They’ll bark and bite the ankles of anyone they see as bigger than they are.
Unfortunately, that pretty much includes everybody at one point or another. Such is the mindset, I’m afraid.
September 25th, 2006 at 7:56 pm
But DJ, that means everyone else IS getting a 90-10 split. That’s really awful.
September 25th, 2006 at 8:22 pm
DJ,
I don’t care what the split is, that is not my business that’s yours and nobody elses. You keep making great comics/graphic novels they way you want and i’ll keep telling as many as i can about YIRMUMAH. So cheerlead all you want. Rah Rah Rah gooooooooooooooooooooo Platinum
September 25th, 2006 at 8:23 pm
I don’t know Kris– I haven’t seen the contract for the Drunk Duck thing… my HBN webcomic contract is different, because mine is Work for Hire pretty much to along with my other deal–
So– say we are talking about 10% — 10% of what? I mean you can still sell your OWN stuff if you want to at your site and own it all your lonesome, publish your own books, etc if youre on Drunk Duck– but if you go sell through thier outlets they’ve built up, the mobile thing, etc… I dont know if what works for me will be with other creators, but imagine you develop something new, it has a solid audience online or at Drunk Duck– you pitch it to Platinum, if they BUY the rights or go into contract with you, then they’d likely PAY YOU to produce your webcomic as well. KNow what I mean?
There are also other things in the contracts for web animation and stuff, but I just cant go into it— interested creators who would be accepted and given contracts to look at would be free to read the details on the New Media revenues and stuff.
Don’t knock it until you know everything is all I’m saying. On the outset, a 90/10 split seems pretty terrible of an idea, but there are OTHER things as well. Just saying.
September 25th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
DJ, can you tell anyone ANYTHING specific about what Platinum has to offer or can you just continue to offer the myriad of possibilities that may or may not be possible if you enter into a contract with them.
Can you offer any specific ways in which Platinum is planning to open doors, bring awareness, etablish media relationships, generate revenue, break down barriers, tear down metaphorical walls or produce any tangible results for any given creator?
Anything? Even a hint? Maybe just a clue.
At all?
September 25th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
Scott– you know what? No. I can’t speak for other creators contracts. I can only tell you MY EXPERIENCES. They have ALL been positive. I’m working with great people, editors, people I’ve admired in the past before Platinum (Lee Nordling) — Bottom line, without getting into specifics of MY deal–again— they BOUGHT Hero By Night from me. I get royalties, bonuses and stuff like that on just about EVERYTHING you can imagine that they would do with it. I also get creator credit for all eternity– (something important to me) — and beyond that, I get paid top dollar to produce something I’m loving doing. That’s pretty awesome to me.
How does that relate to OTHER creators— I can’t say. But they have the SAME, if not EASIER routes to go than I did– I had to beat out thousands of competitors and be picked by SMART JUDGES, not hacks by any means. And then the PUBLIC decided what was better. So, thats why I say in my case its different– but I honestly think if you have a GOOD idea for a story, you can make a lot of money from it and enjoy doing it.
Is it EASY PEASY!??? Fuck no. I’ve been doing this stuff since 1994. It takes hard work and TIME to make a go of doing something creative. But here are some doors for people to go through.
September 25th, 2006 at 9:31 pm
Well, I didn’t much come here for the intesive conversation. Something along the lines of 28-20 would’ve done for me but hell, I read through all that so here goes.
The Drunk Duck site isn’t really specific on any details regarding money sharing (i.e. profits) policies when setting up an account. Well, it just really isn’t specific at any point unlike most websites the sole information about registering appears to be in the privacy policy:
“No comic strips, books, art, illustrations, images, or text, may be copied, modified, sold, leased, republished, posted, transmitted, distributed, or used in any way without obtaining the copyright holder?s prior written consent.”
I would presume that means that any merchandising agreement for now at least would have to be agreed upon at a later date. Naturally, Platinum would point to marketing, experience in the field and the (mere) possibility of a job (if you play ball) in order to get a sizeable portion of the profits. 90-10 may not be far off considering it’s a relatively risk free money making opprotunity for a creator considering they (presumably) wouldn’t have to contirbute much more than their creative skills to the product(s).
More than likely it would be 90-10 on the PROFITS which could set it back to 6.6% (Assuming the product costs 1/3rd of the sales price-it probably would be more). Hell, it’s more than nothing and as I said, risk free. (If the product bombs expect your share next time to drop.
I hope there isn’t a limit on the size of these posts.
I think this is where Scott’s problem starts. It’s pretty meager compared to his 100% share and it could put potentially great creators into a frame of mind where either they are:
A) Soured by the idea and decide to retire for a job in accounting (A terrible fate)
B) Waste most of their time producing crap in the hopes of making a living wage
C) Find that they can’t move from Drunk Duck due to not checking the licensing agreement thoroughly enough.
You have to remember DJ, they may be great guys but in the end Platinum is a business and the bottom line is…well, their bottom line I guess. And they do have kind of a crappy track record over some of the deals they’ve made in the past.
Couple that in with the probability their marketing drive will likely result in a spike in registering creators to offset it’s effect per capita (Cause you know nobody has the time to read a couple of thousand webcomics per day -or- most are put off by the first few comics they try) and despite the risk free money it could be quite a risky way of running a comic.
Despite his abrasive tone Scott’s just trying to protect people from thinking this is the Golden Goose, it’s always been his M.O. Well alright, he likes to take the high horse too, but the point stands. There’s no gold underneath the rainbow just a lot of colourful rain or something.
At least he didn’t say 28-20. What kind of ass would do that?
September 25th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
“I think this is where Scott’s problem starts. It’s pretty meager compared to his 100% share and it could put potentially great creators into a frame of mind where either they are:
A) Soured by the idea and decide to retire for a job in accounting (A terrible fate)
B) Waste most of their time producing crap in the hopes of making a living wage
C) Find that they can’t move from Drunk Duck due to not checking the licensing agreement thoroughly enough.”
If Platinum had offered Scott this same deal in 2000, he’d have jumped on the chance. To his credit, he’s been around long enough to make a living on the comics. Good for him. Good for the guys at PA, good for anyone who can do it. I applaud them for being able to take what they love doing and make a living at it.
But that said, for every PvP and PA, there are a hundred guys and girls putting out a webcomic out of love for what they do and any money is just gravy on it. Ads and merch might pay for the hosting and a dinner at Applebee’s every now and then, but it’s not a living.
What Platinum can offer that Scott’s 100% of PvP cannot is the capability to branch out. Could he partner with someone to do it? Sure, but no studio is going to give a webcomics guy total creative control over, say, a movie or TV pilot. In terms of the deal, DJ might only be getting a %, but if that percentage hits it’s a payday nobody in webcomics will have seen to that point. Even if it doesn’t, he’s playing with house money right now. Hero By Night was a concept. It was entered into a contest. Who cares if it’s a contest disguised for open submissions. The point is an established entity recognized the potential and is willing to put their money where their mouth is. It’s a gamble for HBN or Drunk Duck or whomever, just as it’s a gamble for the backers.
I do not understand Scott’s problem with this. Nobody claims it’s the pot o’ gold at the end of the rainbow for everyone, but it’s an opportunity to succeed. The fact of the matter is this. Despite what people in webcomics believe, they are still a niche. Any publicity, in any medium, benefits EVERYONE, PvP included. As DJ succeeds through Platinum, as anyone succeeds in that format and with that type of exposure, so will everyone succeed. Webcomics drama is the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen. It’s not a zero-sum game. There’s the chance for EVERYONE to succeed and ultimately, for a number of people to make a living at it. Why this is so difficult for people like Kurtz to see is beyond me. As a person who stands to be at the front of any webcomics revolution into the mainstream innerweb he should be touting the opportunity HBN and DD have, not pciking it apart, unless of course, he sees this as a threat instead of an opportunity. To do so would be very shortsighted.
September 25th, 2006 at 10:21 pm
The question is does it really, really, when it boils down to the lowest common denominator does it benefit webcomics?
Only time can tell on that score.
All publicity is good publicity to a point, there are a lot of good webcomics out there. Hell, there are a lot of great webcomics out there. But unless everyone who is pulled in by the media attention sticks around to notice them, and since most people don’t have a long enough attention span to check out every webcomic on a site (From what I can tell DrunkDuck has over 3000 right now, give or take 50) it really is leaving a lot to chance. An awful lot to chance.
And Gabe from PA just mentioned his lovely house, wife and kid. I guess they were already making house money. (Well, enough for 2 I suppose. And an office. And employees. And big words)
September 25th, 2006 at 10:32 pm
The success of comics like PvP and Penny Arcade are niche driven, and a shot in the dark. I mean, you’ve had several comics try to copy their models to moderate success, but just like in other “industries” you’ll only have a few at the top of that game.
It seems to me there are worlds colliding here– maybe I can sum it all up later how I feel on it. There is no cookie cutter way to make a SYSTEM work— no one is going to come in and roll the red carpet out and hand you a check at the end in webcomicdom.
Comics are Comics. That’s the point.
September 25th, 2006 at 11:01 pm
I think it benefits all webcomics because of the inherant interconnectivity of the innerweb. I started out back somewhere around 99-00 reading UF. From that, I found out about PA, from there X, Y, and Z. This is a strange new medium and you’re right — only time will tell. However, people need to stop thinking in terms of market share. There’s no feasable limit (within reason) to the number of webcomics someone can subscribe to. It costs me no more money (other than the value of my time) to read just Yirmumah as opposed to Yirmumah and 30 or 300 other webcomics. I click on an Adsense here and there, they get their money, I get my laugh or whatnot for the day. It’s not a situation where I have $20 a month to spend on comics and I have to decide between Superman/Batman/X-Men/blah blah.
You know, you mention Gabe from PA in your post. You don’t mention that they DID “sell out” a few years ago. It’s a point they can laugh at now, and it’s usually glossed over when referring to them as the gold standard for how to turn webcomics into $$$, but it happened. DJ is playing with house money here. HBN was a shot in the dark to begin with. It cost him no more than a sketch or two and a flight out to San Diego. For an investment of one or two thousand dollars, he has the opportunity to make a fantastic return. In turn, Yirmumah gets exposure and new eyes, the artists who spend their money to advertise here get more eyes, etc etc. Even if it’s 10% of the people who read HBN, DJ still pays the bills, it’s a larger audience from the get-go, and all this for a relatively small investment of time and effort. In terms of ‘risk vs. reward’, how is this anything but a good investment of his time and creativity?
September 26th, 2006 at 6:40 am
I wasn’t talking about DJ. Personally I think his situation null and void of the conversation over wether or not Drunk Duck is going to be a good thing.
September 26th, 2006 at 2:55 pm
Moving past all of the discussion that’s already been had over the 90/10 split, I’d like to point out that a 10% profit isn’t always a bad thing. Especially if they pioneer things like mobile content distribution for you. Usually that sorta stuff takes at least an initial 50% and gives it right to the phone provider.
That leaves 40% to platinum studios and 10% to the creator, which isn’t that horrible, considering the expenses that building this empire will require.
I think it’s funny that DJ is actually saying how happy he is with his arrangement, and Scott Kurtz is so offender by that idea. That somebody could succeed by an avenue he didn’t pursue. Scott is so angry by this is blows my mind. DJ Happy? It MUST be a lie.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:00 pm
Or they think I’ve been fooled into something, or I was tricked into signing something– or that I was “discovered” by Platinum. It’s sad. Shit, I’ve been drawing comics for some time now and I’ve worked with some pretty big name things.
Also, the tyrade someone threw over not getting the ad money from the sites? WAH. Other freehosts dont split their ad revenue with their members, right??? I cant think of any. ComicGenesis doesn’t.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Fooled? Here’s some money. Here’s some more money. Here’s the potential for money on top of that. Jokes on you!
The fuh.
Scott Kurtz suffers from a common problem. People who accomplish anything think they know best for everyone else. Afterall, it worked for them right? What worked for you? Nothing? Well I guess we know who’s right. We should all be building the latest greatest operating system so we can all be just like Bill Gates. Scott would have all succeed or fail by his one trick mentality. And right now the succeed pool is very, very shallow.
The fact is Scott Kurtz isn’t a visionary. He doesn’t understand the limitations imposed on the web comic world as it stands, and can only think very one dimensionally. The problem is, he’s another guy who got a lucky break, and unfortunately that gives him room to spread his mental disease. For gods sake he makes D&D jokes and bathroom humor. None of this shit is even original. The same mainstream media problems that wrote a crappy article for platinum studios granted him an eisner.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:57 pm
I think what Steve has hit on here is a pretty important fact: If you go back and read the article, Rosenberg says 10% of gross and I think he’s saying it in reference to merchandising alone. Now, I’m really no marketing guru, but 10% of the price that each customer pays at the register (either virtual or real-world) doesn’t sound like all that bad of a deal to me. Somebody pays $20 for a t-shirt and I get $2? Cool. Buy a $10 action figure and I get a dollar? Nice. Again, I’m not involved in merchandising in any way, but does that seem pretty good to anyone but me? Does anybody know what % McFarlane gets for a Spawn figure or Liefeld got for a Youngblood figure? I’m honestly asking, because I have no clue, but I would guess it was less than or around 10%.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:29 pm
Aidan, you’d get 10% of PLATINUM’S gross, not 10% of the retailer’s gross, so your “10%” is really more like 2.5%: 10% of 50% (distributor’s cut) of 50% (retailer’s cut), or 50¢.
Selling it through your own site, you spend $7 for smaller runs of shirts and sell them for $20 (which is too expensive, but nevermind) and make $13, all yours.
Is being affiliated with Platinum going to get you 26 times as many T-shirt sales? Maybe. But I doubt it.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:35 am
I guess we were all wrong about the 90/10 thing. I just found this on Drunk Duck:
Q: What’s this we hear about Platinum Studios merchandising my comics and 10% royalty share or something…?
A: That 90/10 split mentioned recently was a misquote that has nothing AT ALL to do with comics. We at some point in the not too distant future plan to enable creators to make some money on the Duck. It’s all in the very early design phase. No percentages have been worked out. None. It will probably be variable depending on what it’s for, how complicated the deal was to make, and how much profit is even there for us to share. Any number right now is purely speculative. And before we would do anything with YOUR comic we would need your permission. It will be purely voluntary. We will be approaching this gradually and with lots of feedback and dialog with the creators on DrunkDuck.
April 30th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
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