A Pamphlety Update
For those of you following the weekend Yirmumah drama, a Pamphlet update for you.
Darth Manley starts a discussion on the Warren Ellis forum- HERE. Looks like I’m not the only Drama Queen around!
Some highlights. Joey says “I do enjoy antagonizing DJ, though.” — thanks Joey!
Some twat named Erech says it’s easy to antagonize me there and Joey retorts:
“Actually, it’s more difficult than you might think. Half the time I’m too subtle, and he misses the point entirely. Or thinks I’m complimenting him.”
No, I get it Joey. I just usually tend to ignore your blabbering ways, they’re harmless to me.
Warren Ellis said to Joey: “I’m starting to feel sympathy with the weirdo who drew you getting hit in the face with a brick.”
It’s ok Warren. I’m starting to feel sympathy for 40 something year old guys who write comics and toil around looking to make up new words to call a comic book, as if they were ashamed of what it is they do or what brought them a solid readership in the first place.
In general I guess it’s still kinda hard for some when someone in public asks you what you write or illustrate…
“What do you do?”
“I’m a writer.”
“What kind of writing do you do?”
“Oh, uhm… Graphic Novels and supplimental monthly pamphlets that….uh, turn into collected pamphlet like objects….”
“DUR.”
– God forbid you say COMIC BOOKS, you idiots. And no, there’s no real fanboy here complaining. I’m not target audience for comic book buying. As I’ve said before, I just think it’s a bad term, one of which the old timers would have clearly had beef with. They were PROUD to be drawing and writing comic books. And they did a MUCH better job at it as well. At the end of the day, it’s COMIC BOOKS that pay your bills… not pamphlets.
Also… mental note… the next time I draw Shaenon Garrity, make sure she’s fatter. CHECK! Thanks Shaenon.
Thanks to Joey too, for uhm, starting a conversation elsewhere and bringing more attention to the comic. Afterall, one little comic like that DID start these conversations. That’s a powerful thing.
January 7th, 2006 at 11:22 pm
// Shaenon Garrity (SHAENON): On the other hand, I like seeing nerds get mad for no good reason. //
Does anyone else find it funny when nerds call other nerds nerds?!
January 7th, 2006 at 11:37 pm
Well, I think nit-picking on terminology (in this case, “pamphlet”) seems a bit silly. However, here, DJ seems to imply that some folks who are using the term “pamphlet” are doing so solely for the purpose of trivializing print comics. Now, that is what bothers me.
Comics are comics, people.
January 8th, 2006 at 12:15 am
So, being a longterm and jaded comics reader, I can’t say I know every author out there. Is this Shaenon Garrity lady supposed to be a big shot writer? I haven’t heard of her, which doesn’t mean she doesn’t make a living. But then, most writers make barely more than the stocking staff at a Wal-Mart, so I’m not at all convinced I should be taking her opinion as expert. Now, if it were Walt Simonson or Kurt Busiek, sure, but who is this lady?
January 8th, 2006 at 1:24 am
I’ve been following this with great interest, so here is my two cents. As anyone who actually paid attention in high school English class would know, there are two types of definitions for most words: the denotation and the connotation. The denotation is the literal or actual meaning of the word, that which one would find in the dictionary. Now my Dictionary lists “pamphlet” as a “a small booklet or leaflet containing information or arguments about a single subject”. Not exactly the definition of a comic book. It lists synonyms such as “brochure, leaflet, booklet, circular, flyer”. The connotation of a word is its more common usage with a particular society or culture, used in a such a way as to elicit particular thoughts or feelings about the word. These can be either positive or negative. Now there is nothing wrong with the denotation of pamphlet. I agree that it is not an accurate or appropriate word to describe a comic book. (A key factor being most pamphlets are not bound where as comic books are). the issue that D.J. and others like myself have is the connotation of pamphlet in regards to comic books. It is being used specifically to create a negative image of the periodical format of comic books. The monthly or bi-monthly comics. And it is being used to create this hostility simply to get this reaction out of people who still find value and enjoyment in a perfectly legitimate art form. There is nothing wrong with the serialized monthly comic book format. There is nothing wrong with the word “comic book”. And I will never understand why some creators feel ashamed of the term. I know if I ever find success as a professional cartoonist, when someone asks me what I do for a living, I will proudly answer, “I write and draw my own comic book,” regardless of its size or publishing frequency. There is room in this world for the online comic strip, for bi-monthly comic book reprints of it, and a trade paperback collecting some of those issues. It’s all comics people. Let’s just call them that.
January 8th, 2006 at 3:45 am
DJ:
I’m on record as loving TEH DRAMA. Surely you remember the comicon column where I came out of the closet on that issue? Fun for all!
Schroddfather: Shaenon’s main gig is as an editor for Viz, but she has written one, and only one (so far) story for Marvel. In terms of Marvel/DC/etc. mainstream comic book store type comics, yeah, she’s not somebody you’d have probably heard of. Yet. Oh — also, Kurt Busiek does jump into the Warren Ellis Engine thread that DJ links above, defends the term “pamphlet,” and claims that he, not Ellis, was the first one to use it (actually, he shares the credit with Marv Wolfman).
Joey
www.webcomicsnation.com
January 8th, 2006 at 7:45 am
I like how quick some comic book writers are to call other people nerds and fanboys. Wonderful irony.
On the use of “pamphlet” to describe a comicbook:
Warren had an agenda — thin comics are crappy. Thick comics are better. Buy my graphic novel.
Joey’s got an agenda — paper comics are crappy. Web comics are better. Buy my webcomics.
As for Shaenon, my guess is she thinks it’s the hip and cool thing to do. And in no way a nerdy activity. Thinking of new names for comicbooks and discussing comics and the web is the COOLEST.
Nerds are only cool when they KNOW they’re nerds and don’t care. Nerds who pretend they’re not and call other people nerds… not so much.
January 8th, 2006 at 8:03 am
Aren’t pamphlets supposed to be free? If his comic books are supposed to be pamphlets, he should be giving them away.
Comic books that are ten pages of content and fifteen pages of advertisements might as well be called marketing pamphlets.
January 8th, 2006 at 9:24 am
Yeah, it is kinda funny to see other nerds and fanboys calling OTHER people nerds and fanboys.
Stuart said it best… there is an agenda. And when you use words that are offensive to an audience to try to sell them something else, it’s definitly wrong. Warren even knows this, in saying that he used the term, saw the reaction and stopped using it and calls his comic books “singles” now.
Still… it bothers ME personally that anyone writing or drawing comic books, can’t just accept the fact and call them comic books. It’s like they’re ashamed to even associate themselves with comic books, comic book stores, etc. It’s a shame.
Joey has said several times in the past, almost a talking point for him, that he was ashamed to go into comics stores and rarely does to this day. He’d rather get his comics online with the privacy aspect like porn. He says the same thing in the recent BlankLabel podcast (which is a funny podcast by the way) —
No matter who calls comic books whatever name they want, they’ll still be comic books, and the majority of readers DO find that term demeaning.
January 8th, 2006 at 9:48 am
Which might be one of the reasons for the choice in term.
Then again, that doesn’t reflect on the failing of a distribution method, but a failing of marketing stategy. There’s a limit to what people accept when it comes to shelving out money for something where advertisements are concerned.
After all you buy a picture story , not a wad of advertisements for more picture stories, and stuff you don’t need, nor want.
Then again, you also buy a picture story. No good story= no sales.
Which both applies to american comics starting in the early eighties, when Marketing Pages started to take up more than 20% of the content, and Marvel/DC started rehashing old storylines as “new material”.
And after which they almost completely disappeared here in europe, while the market for comic books/graphic novels (”childrens”, “adult”, and “XXXrated” *) took a flight.
But then again, it’s only the US market that matters for reference , is it?
But it’s always fun to see Manley et.al. make global statements while wearing pony gear..
* classifying european comic books into US american “suitability” categories is near impossible. Even half the “kiddie comics” we got here would have to be censored to make them remotely suitable for the US market under the current regime.
January 8th, 2006 at 10:10 am
I don’t even think the pamphlet thing bothers me that much anymore. I’m more disappointed in how some of these people are using to it and reacting to the people who find it offensive. Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course, but sometimes it’s best to keep them to yourselves. Joey Manley, who I always thought of as someone who loved the community and respected creators of all creeds… this is obviously not true. I have no idea who Garrity is, but she has been immediately filed away with the Squidis and Tim Buckleys of the world as someone who obviously only wants to start trouble, and enjoys randomly spitting venom and seeing the reaction is causes. I’ve even lost a measure of respect for Warren Ellis, though he probably won’t give a rat’s ass because who the hell are we?
I made a promise to myself to get more active in the webcomics community this year, to try and support it and stand up for it. Shaennon, Joey and friends… thank you for showing us the dark, elitist side of webcomics once again. Next time you say something that offends a large chunk of people, even if you don’t understand why, just say “I didn’t mean it to be derogatory, it’s just a term I’ve come to use”. Calling us “impotent nerds” and admitting you just enjoy getting a rise out of people is not the way to go.
Best of luck to you all.
January 8th, 2006 at 10:18 am
This makes me sad. After a time when folks like Will Eisner had tried to improve the image of comics, we’re still here acting like a bunch of mindless inbreeds.
“Pamphlet”. “Single”. Who gives a flying crap? How about making good comics? How about making comics more available to non-comic book readers?
January 8th, 2006 at 5:59 pm
When I was a little kid, I theorized that any word or phrase, no matter how innocuous, could be construed as an insult if the recipient was in the mood to take it such. To test this, I called my little brother:
“Shower head.”
I leave drawing the parallels as an exercise for the reader. (If DJ really needs to lose 30 pounds, he can use all the extra exercise he can get.)
January 9th, 2006 at 11:21 am
You should never, ever take anything anybody in the media (even small-time media like webcomics) at face value. Everybody has an agenda, or a bias, or a goal. That’s human nature. As the owner of a webcomics business, anything I say about webcomics (or comics in general) has to be passed through your bullshit detector more than most. I don’t deny it. I’m quite open about that.
That said: just because something is obviously propaganda, that doesn’t mean that it can’t also be, you know, true. It’s a convenient and powerful thing for any business when the actual trends in the industry also point favorably to that business’ success — and, yeah, talking about those trends in public, so that more people become aware of them, would be a very good thing for the owner of that business to do, from a PR perspective, while also being completely truthful.
Thanks!
Joey
www.webcomicsnation.com
January 9th, 2006 at 11:25 am
Blah Blah Blah.
Joey– I think you’re a TERRIBLE PR person for webcomics as whole. Just my opinion.
January 9th, 2006 at 11:37 am
If I were trying to be a PR person for webcomics as a whole, I’d be really bothered by that assessment. Good thing that that’s not what I’m trying to do!
Joey
www.webcomicsnation.com/
January 9th, 2006 at 3:49 pm
Exactly. And that’s why I want you to know that using terms like that only helps to hurt webcomics as a whole by alienating comic book readers who WILL or ARE reading webcomics.
January 10th, 2006 at 11:14 am
So when I share my honest opinion, I’m hurting webcomics? There’s a party line that has to be obeyed, or else? I wasn’t aware that you had been made the head of the Webcomics Thought Police, deej. Talk about asshats!
Seriously, I’m no more responsible for “webcomics as a whole” than you are. I’m responsible for growing my part of webcomics. You’re responsible for growing yours. And we’re both responsible for being honest to ourselves and to what we believe. Anybody who would try to take on the larger responsibility you seem to be trying to place on my shoulders — representative for “all of webcomics” — would be setting himself up for ridicule and failure. There are too many competing agendas and plans and goals within the webcomics world for one true representative. It is also this variety that makes webcomics interesting.
Joey
www.webcomicsnation.com
January 10th, 2006 at 11:21 am
You’re right– and I’d surely not want you to represent webcomics as a whole man.
Keep on selling whatever your selling!
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